A Stupid Conversation

Pick people first, ideas second

Numerous times I have been part of a conversation I really dislike. The premise is that “church people” (missionaries, pastors, etc.) cannot be taught how to innovate. Instead, it is way easier to teach businesspeople how to do ministry.

I know that this is something that I have written about before, but it reared its head again last week in a conversation with a faith and work leader. So, let me explain why I think this is a bad way to frame who innovators are and leads us to having stupid conversations.

In 2010 I attended a board meeting for the organization in which I was serving, a missions agency. We had invited some leaders from the “faith and work” movement to tell us about their efforts. Our goal, of course, was to incorporate more business as missions into our work and we needed the board to be “on board” for this effort.

The presenter was running a successful business in China and using it as a platform for significant outreach. It was impressive stuff, and the board was enthralled. Our board had a couple of significant business leaders on it, and they were cheering this effort on. When Q&A time came, one of them raised their hand and asked, “Is it easier to teach a missionary how to do business, or is it best to teach a businessperson how to do ministry?”

The presenter claimed, boldly, that missionaries struggle to do business. Most never get it, and it is a waste of time to get them to do it. “In fact,” he went on, “I never hire missionaries in my company if I can get a qualified businessperson instead. We can teach them the ministry stuff – that is the easy part.”

I groused a bit, internally, but stayed silent. Somebody else asked about his management team. He flicked through a few PowerPoint slides and there he was, standing with his COO and CFO, arm in arm, smiling for the camera. The dude on the left was the former area leader for our missionary agency, and the dude on the right was a former leader for another major missions agency, both of whom I had been friends with for years.

Both “former” missionaries had enjoyed years of investment from their respective agencies who had spent thousands, probably tens of thousands, training, equipping, and supporting them to be able to operate cross-culturally. Only to have them hired by our friend here. I also knew that both men were natural leaders and entrepreneurs long before they met their future boss.

That is when I realized that the wrong question had been asked.

The question is not, “Is it easier to teach a missionary how to do business, or is it best to teach a businessperson how to do ministry?” The question is, “Is this person gifted as a leader and entrepreneur?”

Both men were gifted, innovative leaders. It is who they were, whether inside a missionary agency or in a business, that made them successful. The “arena” was secondary.

This is how many ministries get started. An entrepreneur sees a need and develops a way to address that need. They start a ministry to address it. These entrepreneurs are simply going to entrepreneur, wherever they see problems to solve, whether it is in a business setting or a ministry setting.

Yet, many of these people end up in business. There is often greater freedom to innovate, and the financial rewards are certainly more satisfying. Yet, the basic DNA of an innovative leader will come out whether it is in business or ministry.

I do meter myself a little bit on this principle. Religious institutions have historically been constrictors of innovation (read my book for more on this topic). It would be going too far to say that there is absolutely no difference between a profit motive for innovation and a ministry motive. And, as folks like Henry Kaestner at Faith Driven Entrepreneur have pointed out, these two motivations can be the same motivation. Business can serve redemptive purposes, of course.

If you read about innovation factories, like Y Combinator or Peter Thiel’s investment group, you will find that they concentrate far more on picking the right entrepreneurs than the innovative idea. They pick people, not just breakthrough ideas. As we seek to grow and develop innovative ministries, we cannot simply chase the “best idea.” We need to seek out those people who are naturally gifted with entrepreneurial traits. This is a tall order because businesses know that the entrepreneur is where the pot of gold lays, and they are willing to pay.

That is why Elon Musk just got a huge payout. At least this side of the tomb.

[image: Microsoft Copilot with the prompt: an image of two people having a conversation, with one person looking incredulous, captured with a quality that resembles a photo taken by a Leica camera]