Thank you Ted! As an African missionary for many years and now planting an international usa church this letter to Isaiah in the beginning really ministered to my heart! We have had donors send similar emails…
Always challenging to read your messages. I understand having been outside to several countries and have been involved with multiple churches in the US, including our church "community" in Spearfish, SD where we now reside.
Ted, I think you need to edit the statement - Western church benchmarks are sometimes quantitative (the “healthy church” movement) and there are qualitative measurements (typically, butts in seats, giving, and so on). I think you reversed quantitative and qualitative.
It would be interesting to do a comprehensive survey in the NT of all the times when the church is either (1) quantitatively described or (2) qualitatively assessed. There's the 3,000 figure, but there's also lists of names of people who are involved in the church - these are both perhaps forms of quantitative description. I can think of lots more times when people - Paul, for example - assessed a given church ("What is this I hear..."). One of the baselines used in many movements is the description in Acts 2:41-47 - it begins with a single numeric description (which is a pretty rounded number!) and then describes things they did in v. 42-47. Also, in many movements there are things like "circle diagrams" which people use to assess the spiritual health of a given group or collection of groups - these rarely have anything to do with numbers and everything to do with spiritual health. But they are pretty simple, and always in relationship with immediate spiritual parents/grandparents....! (Also, less and less money from outside, so less and less reporting to outsiders...)
Thank you so much for this well written article. I am from India; I understand these cultural differences and face these struggles on a daily basis. I hope to use this article to educate and equip my committee members. To God be all the honor and glory.
Well said!
Thank you Ted! As an African missionary for many years and now planting an international usa church this letter to Isaiah in the beginning really ministered to my heart! We have had donors send similar emails…
So good. Thank you Ted.
So good. Thank you Ted.
So good. Thank you Ted.
So good. Thank you Ted.
So good. Thank you Ted.
So good. Thank you Ted.
Always challenging to read your messages. I understand having been outside to several countries and have been involved with multiple churches in the US, including our church "community" in Spearfish, SD where we now reside.
Many great memories with you out there...
Dave Medders
Dave, yes... many great memories. I am having a "those were the days" moment right now.
Ted, I think you need to edit the statement - Western church benchmarks are sometimes quantitative (the “healthy church” movement) and there are qualitative measurements (typically, butts in seats, giving, and so on). I think you reversed quantitative and qualitative.
You are right. On it...
It would be interesting to do a comprehensive survey in the NT of all the times when the church is either (1) quantitatively described or (2) qualitatively assessed. There's the 3,000 figure, but there's also lists of names of people who are involved in the church - these are both perhaps forms of quantitative description. I can think of lots more times when people - Paul, for example - assessed a given church ("What is this I hear..."). One of the baselines used in many movements is the description in Acts 2:41-47 - it begins with a single numeric description (which is a pretty rounded number!) and then describes things they did in v. 42-47. Also, in many movements there are things like "circle diagrams" which people use to assess the spiritual health of a given group or collection of groups - these rarely have anything to do with numbers and everything to do with spiritual health. But they are pretty simple, and always in relationship with immediate spiritual parents/grandparents....! (Also, less and less money from outside, so less and less reporting to outsiders...)
Wayne Meeks, in his book The First Urban Christians, does this sort of analysis from a qualitative perspective.
I’ll put it on my list. So many books I wish were available in kindle!
Thank you so much for this well written article. I am from India; I understand these cultural differences and face these struggles on a daily basis. I hope to use this article to educate and equip my committee members. To God be all the honor and glory.
Bless, you, Glory. Thanks for the comment.